kinda like a person who has been abused i think, they sometimes have to get past that people may judge them for being stupid for falling for it, or they have to reconcile with the results of them speaking out, shunning, slander ie: the church calls them heretics because they dont attend anymore. You might be onto something there Sopy. Forgive him? If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. love to hear that sermon. He sought out those that God sent Him to minister to in remote places away from crowds. The first time, it was shocking. They may have been totally shocked when Mark began to spew his rude, humiliating, oppressive descriptions and warped perceptions of scripture and men and women. Your facts are a bit off, beginning with the meaning of Che. I am no fan of his, but there are some big holes in your acvount of his life. 2.the contents of the gallbladder; bile (proverbial for its bitterness). Its easy to be friendly, humble, attentive, polite, , to your peers and to your superiors. You will hear the Velcro bar/connect center mentioned several times in each service. to confer grace through the sacraments. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. The movie was sooooooo good. Mark begins to describe what happened with Stephen in Acts 6:8-15. Yes, I am familiar with Che and what he represents. See here: As you all know, my family and I have been facing difficult trials and persecution. But I am also free to point out his behavior looks sociopathic if one has spent enough time looking into sociopathic behaviors. All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card and teach cheap grace. Did you miss a tithe payment? If his values were disdained he would have a far better chance of turning away from the corruption that has engulfed his life so far. It is affiliated with Assemblies of God USA. Even then he will need what was badly missing from Mars Hill, real accountability. When I read your comment, this suddenly popped into my head. That got my attention as I was reading the comments yesterday evening. As for my outsider perspective he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. And as long as they do, it will continue. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Lydia wrote: You would think that over a decade of Manly Man, sexist, dude-bro, preachers that people have had enough, the novelty has worn off, and theyre ready to get real about Church and the faith again? Mencken: No one in this world, so far as I know and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Training ourselves to sense right from wrong based on the Word of God and empowered by the Holy Spirit will result in a clear conscience.. Many times it kept me from feeling like I was the only one who could see this stuff or understood how wrong it is. I was mainly trying to establish there is a difference between lovable Hollywood Che and reality Che. Hillsong church head Brian Houston accused alleged child abuse victim of tempting father, inquiry told, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2783128/Hillsong-church-founder-offered-sex-abuse-victim-10000-meeting-McDonalds-restaurant.html. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. I dont want other people having that same regret. http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, from reading rob smiths post about the orphanage Agathos in Africa being defunded by Marks Hill church and marks telling missionaries not to work with them it is clear where Matt Chandler got the idea. 33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name., I dont think God has sent any dreams or visions to anyone vouching for Mark Driscoll? @ Bridget: The term was invented by Tom Wolfe back in the 70s to describe the superficial gliteratti associating with revolutionary thugs as a way to prove their bonafides. . At some point, with enough outcry and rage from outside, they may hopefully see it as you did looking up at that 3 x 5 card on your bulletin. In your mega travels Lydia, is this homogenization of bad practices the norm? Could Driscoll really appeal to people now using his Macho Man shtick? The reason for this is that he wept, his remorse was written on his face for months and he still is remorseful, he didnt once make any excuse for his behavior, he accepted responsiblility and reached out to the family of the victim. The singles have a lot of money to be exploited as well, but churches are stuck in a rut of trying to fleece the married folks. they had a scandal about their homes for helping young women also, financial corruption-ish and not letting the women get outside counseling. Ive recently read Wayne Jacobsen Finding Church, Frank Viola Finding Organic Church, Terry Stanley The way Church Was Meant To Be and found what they think the church should be an interesting concept but so far Im not convinced. Not here to argue about this, just pointing it out. they warm up to stone people like baseball players and lay their coats at the feet of saul to show he is the alpha. (I would have thought he was the lazy one who didnt want to get his hands dirty by actually doing anything but talking a lot), takes it from daniel where god becomes man, if you saw Jesus you would not likely see him as you expect. It is possible for somebody who has a cutting tongue and a big mouth to stop. here is a bit of what i could type out as he was speaking, would love to see a transcript of it instead of having to listen to it though. For mr. driscoll to change the whole meaning of this into the sponge was probably really used as toilet paper because he did some study in some far away country is to bring doubt to Gods prophecies and the fulfilment of them. he was chosen because the apostles couldnt be bothered by distributing food to widows) first martyr in church. Matthew 27:33-34 Christians have to be different than that. My point with Che is to draw a parallel. Gateway also directly lifted the slogan every number has a name, every name has a story.. spiel verbatim from Perry Nobles NewSpring to try to distract from the reality that every member is seen as a giving unit number (no attribution to Perry, of course). It is deceiving men so they will be more inclined to pay those 500+ employees their hundred thousand dollar pay packages. GW youth group also adopted the whole Tribes deal directly from Hillsong, complete with competing tribes wearing war paint and carrying weapons. I know you are already familiar with it but for anyone else not familiar, it was written in the context of David and Saul. The man can speak pretty well and seems to fill the pews. . The Stronger Men's Conference exists to empower and motivate men to live out God's view of manhood and be the best husbands, fathers, and leaders God has called them to be! After describing the crucifixion of Jesus, Mark Driscoll asks: Who has attacked you? It is all choreographed and it works! And every Wednesay at 7pm! James River Church, a multi-campus, 17,000-member megachurch in Missouri, is now fending off strong criticism from the public and health officials after pictures posted on social media showed what appear to be hundreds of unmasked people, practicing very little social distancing packed inside their Springfield location to participate in Christmas His career has been a total focus on getting his narcissistic supply. Maybe Driscoll can do commercials like John McEnroe, i am against that sort of ministry, that sort of authority over people, that sort of famousness, that sort of using the gospel of Jesus to make money and become well known in christan circles, that sort of using Jesus name for any personal gain, that sort of i have special insight from God and heres how much you have to pay for it in my new book, that sort of quit saying i have to be asking to be forgiven if i hurt people that sort of we are all brethren but i am alpha brethren i dont hold unforgiveness toward mark driscoll but i am not for anyone anywhere doing that sort of ministry. The Lord called to him in a vision, Ananias! I view it as wisdom. We saw the Dallas Morning News drop TVC story like it had Ebola germs on it despite knowing that parents were not being warned of a pedophile in their midst. Thats why these massive megas arent likely to represent the narrow gate. LT: Certainly they all hire each other as guest speakers in order to pay large honorariums from tithe dollars that end up in each others personal bank accounts. As a follow-up (Sydney Morning Herald 1 July 2015), Hillsong conference shows interview with controversial US Pastor, Mark Driscoll see link Your facts are a bit off, beginning with the meaning of Che. I am no fan of his, but there are some big holes in your acvount of his life. But over time became desensitized and swept up in group-think so as to eventually accept it as acceptable in the 21st century. Do your part with the people in your life, give to your church, beyond that have a global heart for widows, orphans, the poor and those in need, I am going to ask you to support some widows and orphans in Africa, We have an orphanage, we have a villagemembers of Mars Hill have actually moved there to take care of widows and orphans.. A grunge rock Lord Byron mad, bad and dangerous to know. there is a minor child involved that both of them love deeply. Do any of you who oppose Driscoll preaching or running a church again, is there a way he could ever get forgiveness from yall to do that sort of ministry again? . notable pastors have been pouring into his life. The term was invented by Tom Wolfe back in the 70s to describe the superficial gliteratti associating with revolutionary thugs as a way to prove their bonafides. As Gram wrote above these are relationships (if you can call it that) built on trust. I would argue the reverse. They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. rocks are flying people are shouting opposition and accusations., in christian language christians are like sheep, opponents are like wolves, alpha, saul. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. The text is not prescriptive. So why would they view power and authority as central to the Gospel? @ sam: Mark was talking about Mark. sponge is used as toilet paper. I know historical accounts can be skewed. Mega churches are asking people to step back from the reality of how they effect people and just go along with a bunch of rules and covenants and christianeese and let them stay in their positions cause their friends say they are changed. now i am going to see if i can stand to listen to the whole mark speaks video. My guess is that their Calvinism isnt the root problem here. "Homosexual sin is not the only serious sin. Driscoll does not meet the biblical qualifications to be a preacher. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . Join thousands of others to get the FREEDOM POST newsletter for free, sent twice a week from The Christian Post. Pouring? How to Resign from a Church For all the lack of American Idol production values I learned more in that one day of teaching at that little church then I did in all the years I attended Gateway. And shame on these preachers at these churches giving MD a platform to relaunch his church-related career. An awful lot of people are having to do the exact same thing. I was shocked and deeply saddened to see photos from the James River event over the weekend. He was not participating in stonings. Then he stated emphatically: Now let me just say this to you today cause I have no apology for Mark being there; Im glad Marks here. stephen doesnt blameshift, doesnt lose his temper, stays calm. So work harder for the state and your comrades who do not meet their quotas. He wants to release you from that burden and bondage, they haven't asked for forgiveness? luke was paul's dr and paul was luke's pastor. 15 But the Lord said to Ananias, Go! sheep are watching and wolves coming. 4 Ways of Discerning If You Have Left Jesus Behind. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And I saw it. Mark Driscoll has a lot of repenting to do and until he does that he should not be permitted to preach/speak at any church. think of him as he is pray to glorified jesusking of kings lord of lords worshiped by angels. stephen says Ive gotta find jesus on the worst most devasting difficult damaging day of my life I have to find jesus (more mark interpreting the bible for all of us non pastors, stephen already knew where Jesus was) and he sees jesus, what is jesus doing? 11 The Lord told him, Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. Join Us As we Welcome Our Speaker, Apostle Mark Driscoll, The Forgiven. Consider how he attained it fleecing the flock. Ok, I looked up Hillsong because I know in the past theres been a bit of controversy about them. But we rarely hear about that. 34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink. @ Nancy: Even setting aside his vulgarity, what of his abusiveness, his corruption? until he says otherwise what else can a person think? James River Church is one of the largest Assemblies of God churches in the United States. She was warned not to work with Agathos. James River is a mega church. Considering the level of corruption I impute to mixing with Driscoll, Im not wondering much. James River Church attenders should google What happens if you get a bad teacher. It is all he knows, and Im sure he has bills to pay, and is used to a certain standard of living. Their statements to Karen Hinkley and everyone else may be complete cynical BS to pull the wool over everyones eyes, or at least those of their pewsitters. So grateful others are addressing these serious problems that plague Christendom. and humility i think is something that is a mark of a true christian that cant be faked, it always looks fake when people try to do that. This one was different. When you go to these posh country clubesque entertainment centers their #1 priority is to get visitors connected and plugged in. Im sure someone wittier than I can do something with his Training ourselves to sense right from wrong. I didnt feel pressured. Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community so long as you bow to him and stay on his good size. The only two ways that I can think of for having said benchmarks, assuming by leadership you mean pastor(s) and not just chairman of some committee, is either having a system with central authority with established criteria which must be met prior to ordination and some written policies which are grounds for dismissal in certain conditions, That would be a denominational hierarchical system with designated people with authority and with something in writing, like an official book of how we do it. Or else to have a savvy and informed and mature congregation who would agree with and co-operate with each other on what was necessary and what needed done and which would have the actual power (backing of the people) to get it done. I think it underestimates those believers in the pews who are, themselves, filled with the Spirit and do exhibit the fruit of Galations 5. I believe that.' They will promise to give you an authentic community to do life with. shuning is not always done professionally as in TVC but so often done whisperingly in churches but the effect is the same to the person shunned. Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation) they are plugged in several days a week, basically dropping out of their non-church activities. I do feel bad for the guy in many ways. I simply offer another perspective. Mars Hill Church was ending its relationship to Agathos. So far I define church as more what it isnt rather than what it is. Because for me, it is the center of the practice of Christianity, and I had missed it. The he takes him back to Antioch where they work together for a year with converted Gentiles. I tend to doubt it but who knows. Six months for Driscoll does not represent later in life, give him another ten or twenty years. I had never heard someone talk like that. Rejection by churches or others in christian authority has actually resulted in the Lord comforting and building me up (in spite of my flaws) instead of causing me to doubt my salvation, He has used these things to show me how much He loves me, personally. This guy has lists on his page in bulleted form: Was Pastor Lindells statement just a slip or an attempt to rewrite history? If after many years of that, he wrote a book about how God brought about change within, Id be interested in reading it. Because cheap grace for Christians who are not decent people is all the rage now. The SGM defenders used the no criminal charges aspect of innocence, too, when it came to CJ. Just show-biz. It is definitely not where all leadership and vision is deferred to one man, and it is definitely not authoritarian. Gr8 fun. forgiveness means its paid in full. It probably did. Oh no. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. Whats MDs explanation for the ritual shunnings? I cannot respect or support these men knowing that they revere such a man as a pastor. 99,693 were here. I never saw it tried in a church setting, but something like that was tried where I worked. Certainly they all hire each other as guest speakers in order to pay large honorariums from tithe dollars that end up in each others personal bank accounts. He had simply accepted the rumors. Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? I think that the only way to self regulate is to have benchmarks that people must reach to be in leadership positions. Well, Jesus, Stephen, Paul, and Mark Driscoll. If others havent heard this song yet, give it a try and see what you think. Returning so soon to the limelight reinforces the idea that it really is all about Mark. The 38-year-old "Tomb Raider" beauty has been fighting nonstop with Pitt over his parents' and siblings' dedication to a church with a hate-mongering pastor who rails against gays and preaches that homosexuality dishonors God. Its all he does. First, he begins by praying that he wants to make this time just about God and His people; yet he appears to take the stories of Stephen and Paul and apply them to his own circumstance at least that's how it sounded to me. So many use Ches image as some sort of inspirational symbol.